Christine Theriot is the Director of Strategic Partners at World of Women. Prior to working full time in web3. she had extensive experience in sales and marketing focused on launching high-profile TV and entertainment brand partnerships. Recorded on February 8, 2023 for Crypto Packaged Goods Genius Call series.
Christine Theriot is the Director of Strategic Partners at World of Women and was previously the Director of Strategic Partners at My BFF. She was one of the first CPG Genesis members, drawn to the incredible mentors and the chance to socialize in a new way. Her unconventional background, experience and tenacity to learn more about web3 allowed her to make a successful transition into it full time.
"It wasn't until I had absolute conviction on the type of people and the type of entrepreneurs that I wanted to align with in web 3 that I started to really think seriously about what those moves would be and taking it into the next phase of my life." - Christine Theriot
In this episode, you will learn the following:
1. How Christine Theriot went from a successful agency career to becoming a key figure in the web3 space.
2. The importance of exploring and discovering what makes one tick and excited about the space.
3. The differences between working in web2 vs web3 when it comes to team size, resources, and approaches.
Follow Christine at https://twitter.com/Majestique_eth
Follow Club CPG at https://twitter.com/CPGCLUB
To learn more about Crypto Packages Goods, visit https://www.cryptopackagedgoods.com/
Gmgm. We are back. Today. I'm interviewing Christine theriott Christine is the director of strategic partners at world of women and was previously the director of strategic partners at my BFF. Prior to transitioning to web three, Christine served as the vice president of sales and marketing at intellect deals, where she built a robust network of TV and entertainment brand partnerships with mega media giants like the ellen DeGeneres show, wendy williams, the real access hollywood, steve harvey, and many more. Christine is going to share her practical and tangible career insights with things like creating and designing your ideal role, shooting your shot successfully working in web two versus working in web three, building your web three rep pay negotiation, which we could spend a ton of time on and also setting professional boundaries. So it is with great pleasure that I introduce Christine.
Christine Theriot 00:00:57
Hey, everyone. Super excited to be here today.
Mikey Piro 00:01:00
So fun, kind of preamble. I had never met Christine IRL. It was like the before times when everybody was just a JPEG on the internet, and we met through the genesis chats and had a lot of moments that we shared, I believe through chat, which was like a really new experience for me that kind of hadn't happened since probably like college. And then at nftnyc, we met up in real life and it was like, oh, wow, this internet friendship is actually amazing and even better in real life. So welcome and thank you. I would love for you to talk about your pre web three, the before times, before times and more recently, like what you were doing at intelligent deals.
Christine Theriot 00:01:42
That's probably a great place to start in this sense of going over a little of my web two background. So back in intelligent deals, I effectively represented several hundred brands in an omnichannel capacity. So I would represent brands in multiple different categories, everyone from your tech brands like samsung to home and goods like your ninjas and kitchen appliances to beauty and wellness. And I would place them in opportunities for online sales, TV opportunities, subscription boxes, and retail and wholesale. So a little bit of everything. So essentially, if a brand were to come to my previous agency and say like, hey, we essentially want to find growth pathways in places that we aren't. And so my company would go out and we'd find all the different platforms and places that there might be a fit for them to be on. And we pitch to all the associated buyers, television producers, and selectively place them on the calendar throughout the year so that they'd be able to generate sales, have marketing opportunities, bring in awareness for their brand, and our agency would just make a commission off of each respective placement. So it made it a really great flywheel for brands to get in places that they hadn't been before. And it really enabled our agency to have this incredible reach because we were also representing some of the biggest brands in the world. And so it enabled us to get through doors that were sometimes typically difficult to get through, and be able to negotiate with some of the bigger media giants where that previously was more difficult. So it was definitely a very different world than coming into Web Three for sure.
Mikey Piro 00:03:37
I think that when we first met, you were well down the rabbit hole of web three, and you were sort of tinkering, I think, with moving full time into web three. But I want to pause before the jump into web three. Like, what attracted you to crypto and NFT specifically, and what was your first kind of experience with web three?
Christine Theriot 00:04:02
With crypto? I think it was easier. Back in 2015 I had purchased, I think bitcoin and Ethereum for the first time and there was this sort of obvious to me when it came to supporting something that meant decentralization or pulling away some of the power from banks and also being able to transfer money very quickly. To me, crypto was the easiest thing to wrap my mind around, but it took a lot longer for NFPs, and it started with that whole movement of when everyone was longing for connection and everyone was on clubhouse and talking about a variety of topics. And one of them that just happened to be seemingly very much all day, everyday topic for Farok, especially back then, was Nfts and Board Apes and Friends with you and a couple of other really big projects that had their limelight back in the day in that format. And for me it still was like something that was a little bit foreign and it wasn't something that I latched on to. But ultimately, after a couple of people that I knew in Ecommerce had started moving towards doing something in blockchain for their career and also just nfts became more prevalent in the media and it became more newsworthy and it sort of just like piqued my interest. And I had done a bit of research and I ended up finding World of Women, which is fairly ironic, knowing where I am now. But it really was that first moment for me that kind of clicked and it wasn't because of just the art, it wasn't because of just one thing. It was the full total package. And I went into the discord, I saw that there was like a budding community underneath. I saw that they were taking this very seriously as a business. They were arguably like the most iconic women led project that started right from the get go. So it was very attractive for me also in just this discussion surrounding IP and what people can do with intellectual property, how they're able to capitalize on this new movement of brands being on the blockchain. And so I really felt super strongly about it at the time to the point where I had thrown down, I want to say it was around three and a half east, or close to around $11,000 at the time on my first world of women. And that was definitely my biggest investment into the world of NFPs. And I remember being so passionate about it and talking to everyone that I knew that I had made this purchase. And kind of like I was a little bit nuts because it's like, all I would talk about for several weeks on end. But it ended up bleeding so much into what I was doing in my agency that I remember talking to one of my clients on a call at one point, and I was like, yeah. And by the way, I recently invested in this company called World of Women. And one of my clients was so inspired by the fact that I was doing this that he went and he bought one the next day. And I remember that was sort of like my signaling. Like, one, there's some real notable promise here in what this can do. Two, I clearly made an investment that was enough to where I could unintentionally sell it to another person, so that's already a good sign. And then three, it definitely was just like a big signal to me personally that I had really put a lot of myself into wanting to learn more about the industry and also putting my money where my mouth was and there just became this inevitable magnetism towards just wanting to do more in web three. And I think that's where it really started for me.
Mikey Piro 00:08:05
So you've made this transition now, and I want to talk about we're not now you've made it, but at that moment, you were really, from what I recall, it was a big decision to move full time into web three. And I think as we've gotten to know each other and I can say this with confidence, you're extremely thoughtful in how you approach most things in life. And for sure when it comes to then, like, oh, I'm going to provide for myself through my job, through my career, that leap into something that was very much on the bleeding edge of where tech is. I think you can now argue, like, crypto and AI are kind of like on those frontiers for folks. How did you parse out and what was your transition like? What were you considering? I think for folks that are here listening a big part of what you've achieved especially for our folks that are building in web three and the accelerator the macro industry has changed a ton around crypto specifically and I think the environment around the bear market that is now in full swing of the people who are here are like the faithful. They are the maxis of crypto and web three. So what factors did you consider and what were you weighing in your mind and out loud about taking that leap into web three? And how was it kind of different than a web two job decision.
Christine Theriot 00:09:34
I guess I should start by saying that whenever I discovered World of Women was not necessarily when I started working for them, I should definitely reformat that part of the story to clarify a bit more, because I think another reason why people are so attracted to my story is because it's anything but linear. I came into the industry with a peaked curiosity and this magnetism that I spoke about earlier, but it wasn't until I started making little steps and then eventually a giant leap before things started to really fully align for where I am currently. So those months that were sort of after my big World of Women purchase, I had discovered boss beauties, and it was like before they even minted out, before they had even really become a presence in the space at all. In fact, no one knew who they were. And back then, I had just kind of, like, struck up conversation with the founders, and I decided to moderate for them, which is so funny to me, like, looking back on it now because I was running a multimillion dollar business, I was scaling up my agency, and we were incredibly successful. But after a certain hour, I would go into discord and talk to the community of all beauties, and it would bring me so much joy. Back then, too, when it was so early, it just gave me this great opportunity to get to know what communities were like on the ground level of when things started, what things look like for building a successful community. Lisa and Anthony take a lot of careful approach in how they build. And so being a part of that, even as just like, this one off moderator who was just doing it for fun, was really an enriching experience, and it drew me that much closer to wanting to do more. And at that stage, I had kind of become hooked on communities, or at least finding the right ones that were for myself. And at this stage, the industry was getting more and more saturated. There were obviously more and more NFP projects that were coming out, but there was one that we all know that came onto the scene and result of actually a lot of clubhouse success, and that was CPG. And I remember very distinctly Christine Theriot and his very ominous Twitter posts about how you should turn on notifications. And so I had done that, and in the middle of making a stir fry, I had gotten a notification on my phone, and sure enough, it was like, we're minting now. It wasn't even like, we're minting in a little while. It's like, we're minting now. And so I screamed across my condo for my partner to grab the stir fry, and I ran across to my office to go get my ledger. And I was one of the first people that minted a Genesis token, and that literally changed my life. And I say that without any hesitation and without any hyperbole, because it really did. After joining CPG. It not only allowed me this place to be able to communicate with the incredible, obviously mentors that kristen jamie had brought in initially, but it created this place for me to be able to socialize in a completely new way with people that were either successful already in web three or trying to find their success in some way. And so, for me, as someone who was like purely dabbling, mind you, I was like moderating for fun. I had invested more money than I ever thought I would. I had not even fully thought about it as like a full time career. I thought maybe very nonchalantly, like that would be really cool one day if eventually I found myself doing that. But it ended up accelerating quite a lot, because whenever you find yourself typically in a group of really amazingly, generally influential people, especially, you tend to find that opportunities gravitate towards you one way or another if you put yourself out there. And so in that period of time when CPG was in its infancy, there was this discussion about creating subgroups where people would be able to sort of find a particular topic or hobby or interest. And so many subgroups were born, like the Athletic Club was born, a lot of very random ones. And so for me, myself and Alex Marshall had created NBA, also known as no Boys Allowed, which now is also a pop group. But back then this was like our area and chat where we could sort of bring all the women together and just talk on the day to day. And it was a day to day for us. It was, I think, even more active in some instances than the normal chat, because all the women really valued just being in that place together. It was like myself, Jamie, Ariel Wingroff, like some really badass women who were there, just like talking about our experiences, what our thoughts were on certain trends and developments in the industry. And at that stage, Jamie had expressed that she might be doing something. It was kind of like, oh, I might have found my co founder, I might do something that's separate from CPG, kind of just in these ideating phases. And as things had progressed, that the magnetism had grown stronger. For me, at this stage, there were two tracks that were running. Jamie was developing her idea and having it become coming more into fruition. And at that stage, I imagined she had found Brit. And so, for me, on the other end, I was still very much having a successful business on the agency side, but I had made a Twitter. I had found myself digging and getting in more rabbit holes, I had joined more communities, I had started finding myself checking news more often. So I had become a lot more ingrained in the culture too. And that was a big thing as far as making me more inclined to make this more of a career change. But it wasn't until Jamie had come a little bit further along and I had reached out it was very almost awkward because I had reached out via Telegram to ask for her email, so that I could email her to schedule a call. So that we eventually jumped on a call together and discussed about how I was interested in joining whatever she was cooking up. And so that was like the very initial phases of where that initiative started to become something that actually was manifesting into something very real.
Mikey Piro 00:16:39
Yeah. Your employee won it. BFF. That's pretty dope. There's so much for us to recount from what you just covered. For the folks that are really seeking kind of how to dive into web three, what do you think the key takeaway from that first phase of your experience is? It sounded to me like you were aggressive in pursuing aggressive sounds wrong. Like you were just persistent in pursuing something that interested you and you put forward what your skill set was.
Christine Theriot 00:17:17
Just going out and exploring and discovering and finding what makes you tick and what makes you feel excited about the space and really latching on to that. I think that that's a really big factor to consider that. And who are you looking to potentially align with? For me personally, I left almost ten year long career in working at a very successful group of companies and doing what I loved in web two. But it wasn't until I had absolute conviction on the type of people and the type of entrepreneurs that I wanted to align with in web three that I started to really think seriously about what those moves would be and taking it into, I guess, the next phase of my life. But I would say exploration and also just making sure that you are really thinking on what the future looks like for your career and not coming at it from a static approach, but what could it evolve into? I remember when I took initiative with Jamie, it was a great opportunity for me being the first employee. But you also have to understand what you're walking into. It definitely is an industry that is ripe with startups, and so taking initiative and making sure that you're able to cover all your bases is super important whenever you're making those first steps.
Mikey Piro 00:18:56
Absolutely. All right, so let's get down to some really breasttacks of execution in the partnership realm. So you are the director of partnerships. You have a pretty same, but different role in terms of the industries. What are some of the differences that you found between dealing with and working with web two versus web three companies?
Christine Theriot 00:19:24
I think the relationship dynamic is a lot more straightforward in web two and in web three. There's still a lot of figuring out to do just like as an industry. And what I mean by that for instance, is like even vetting opportunities is fairly different for a variety of reasons and like many of these companies and chains and they're all fairly new in comparison to platforms and institutions that have been around for several decades. It's so much simpler to get deals done or research encompassed for businesses that have proven track records of success, like in web Two for example. And that's not to say that they don't exist in web Three, they're just significantly more different to identify and read through as you evaluate and what makes the most sense for the brand in question. For me whenever I'm thinking on what to pursue with a Web Two brand in my former agency career, it's a lot more straightforward because a lot of the companies I can dig up robust histories of business and success with. I can look up their financial holdings and data customer records, testimonials some of these platforms that we've been using both, like on the marketplace side and also, like, L Twos or other technologies in Web Three. They're just so new, and so they don't have a lot of this kind of backing where I could go in confidently and approach a relationship similar to Web Two. You have to do a lot more digging, you have to go to a lot more trouble to identify those types of customer testimonials whenever you're evaluating especially different types of services for your business. So I would say that it's a very different landscape in comparison and you're having to think a lot more creatively on the approach which I'm sure we'll dive into a little bit more later on. How that's accomplished through BD which is its own animal in itself?
Mikey Piro 00:21:30
Yeah, I think it's fascinating. That is a very large chasm. There's just not a body of work reputationally for folks and I think we find it in that in a lot of places where people are doxed it becomes a bit easier, but it's still not a guarantee that the project that you're going to attach yourself to is destined to be a success. And that's generally a disclaimer for things in life, right? Prior performance does not guarantee similar outcomes. So you just started at wow and this was different. You are now coming from web three to web three. What was the difference for joining wow as opposed to joining BFF?
Christine Theriot 00:22:22
I think the most noticeable difference is definitely in team size and just like the availability of resources, BFF is definitely a smaller but like very resourceful team in itself. But since wow has a bit more time under its belt and I think with the whole separate aspect of the business purely being on philanthropy, so not people are aware wow is actually two entities both the studio side. Which is the revenue pursuit actual business element to it. And then there is the nonprofit philanthropy side, which is like a bit more focused on the education and the charity elements. And so naturally it has a bit more individuals to be able to run both sides of the equation. And so coming to a team of 23, it provides its own set of benefits and challenges because you're obviously navigating dealing with a lot more people and departments as opposed to things being a lot more streamlined because you have a much smaller team. So I think for me, it really came down to the operational differences, ironically being the ones that were the most noticeable right off the gate. But the companies themselves, they share a lot of mission alignment and a lot of values that are similar. And so that for me was one of the more positive elements of changing between the two is because, like, the mission is still very much similar in nature, but, like, the dynamic of how the team is and, like, how we operate is definitely different than at BFF, for sure.
Mikey Piro 00:24:17
So now let's get down to some brass tacks in the literal negotiation of which I've been privy to sharing, seeing some of your templates for how I've leveraged some of your templates for working with partnerships. But we're going to talk about more of the personal side of things. Early in my career, I had the great benefit of sitting down at lunch with the chief innovation officer at a company that I won't disclose, and I had already been hired, but he gave me his kind of like, philosophy on getting hired and negotiating pay. And he was always of the opinion, like, I will listen to every offer, but I will not take jobs that do not reflect my worth. Would you share with us your approach and your strategy for negotiating pay and benefits? And what of those strategies have worked the best for you?
Christine Theriot 00:25:14
I think for me, I really come from a place where I am coming from a very unconventional background, where I didn't have also a very normal educational conclusion when it came to college. Like, I went to college several times, but I ultimately didn't get my degree. I had a variety of professions in my life before I ended up where I am today, but ultimately, when I did get to a certain career point in my life where I was making six figures, I had accumulated quite a bit of experience. It came down to really focusing on all of the progression I had made and putting that in front of the people that made those decisions. And while it might sound simple, I think it's important to extrapolate as much as possible from your experience to really make the most of whatever you're negotiating or whatever you're trying to accomplish with getting a certain amount of money. And that for me was like, really multifaceted because I had really taught myself so much and also built a network almost entirely from scratch. And so taking these elements apart and dissecting them. And being able to not only articulate that, but being able to write it out was immensely helpful. So narrowing down what your accomplishments are is probably one of the tips that I would put forward in making sure that you are as detailed as possible. Every accomplishment that you can think of that has any kind of notoriety both to yourself or to the company that you worked for, whether that you helped x amount of profitability you closed, x amount of accounts you made x amount of money you worked with this list of businesses. I think really making sure that your accomplishments are front row and center whenever you're talking about money is essential to the equation. Because if you're forgetting whole pieces of the puzzle that are arguably some of your biggest strengths or some of your more noteworthy accomplishments, you are not advocating fully for yourself in a lot of ways, and you're not putting everything on the table to be able to understand your worth as not only an employee, but as an individual, as someone that can be able to achieve certain milestones. I think whenever you're laying things out to a potential employer, it's going to be different than if it were an existing employer. But the premise is still the same. You need to be able to really make sure that as much as possible that you feel is going to be not worthy in these discussions is put as a highlight because it's easy for us to go through the day to day and have these accomplishments, but not really write them down, centralize them in one place and really, like, iron out what is allowing the company that you're working for the type of success that you're directly putting into it, if that makes any sense.
Mikey Piro 00:28:50
Yeah, Absolutely. It's interesting, the listing of accomplishments. I think a lot of folks really would kind of bristle at but when you sit down to do it, it is supremely important. It's important, I think for two big reasons that I've had experience with in the past. One is you have a very tangible list of your accomplishments. But the other part is that when you're going into a meeting to negotiate, the confidence is something that needs to be there. And that list serves as a very important reminder of, like, yeah, I did all this. I did this. When people are trying to get that best leveraged payout and shifting from web two to web three, what's the best advice you've received?
Christine Theriot 00:29:46
I think for me it was never really easy because all you can do is look at comparatives whether it's a previous position in business development in my case to allude to a position in web three that is partnerships focused you can only really lean on your strengths and accomplishments and be able to provide figures that are as realistic as possible. I Think That Knowing Average Market Rate is One Of Those things that is helpful, but not necessarily always going to be exactly as portrayed online because you're entering a completely different sector that is evolving and once again is wrought with mostly startups. So you're not working with the same type of capital or you're not in a corporate environment. So I think going in and also understanding that I hate to say this, but you're likely not going to get the same type of deal or offerings as you would directly from a Web Two position is likely. It's not a guarantee you're not going to make for sure less money if you go into Web Three, but it's definitely something that I think people who are interested in having it be a full time position for them that that is a likely factor to consider. You will probably make less, at least from the beginning. But that's not to say that you can't make more, that there aren't growth opportunities, but it's definitely something that you need to mentally prepare yourself as you're walking into the industry, and that it likely won't be exactly what you're looking for on paper, but always good to strive towards as much as you can accomplish in that arena.
Mikey Piro 00:31:52
One of the exercises that I think we all constantly go through, I know I personally do, and I've read lots of folks taking pauses from social media or pauses from just the news. This idea of setting these professional boundaries and personal boundaries with your work environment. Web Three is 24 by seven. Our chats literally circumnavigate the globe and if I left notifications on continually, it would just light up. You and I have shared a lot and I know you've had some back and forth with managing those boundaries. Can you share some of your stories and experiences with setting those boundaries and what are some successful tactics that you've embraced?
Christine Theriot 00:32:41
Within the last month and a half? I've done a really good job at creating time blocks in my calendar to just like, walk away from my computer, which has been great. I am a big advocate for standing desk. I used to have a really bad tendency and even sometimes now I do and I have to like, wean myself away from doing it sometimes. Like, you have a tendency to just like, sit on the couch or sit on the bed and work. And I think for me, working remotely, especially for the past like four plus years now, it's been a consistent challenge in just ensuring that not only are you keeping your professional and your personal life balance, but you're also ensuring that your environments are reflective of that. Because it's really easy to get into this work mode at home when you're not really setting environment boundaries. So I really try hard to only work in my office. I try really hard to take that time off in my calendar and get out of my office and walk around. I have been really trying. Hard to make my own food at home, as opposed to just like, constantly getting things delivered in. And while all of these might not sound like your typical ways to set boundaries like that, it definitely does make a really big difference in how you're able to approach working and being able to carve out sacred spaces within your home environment that are related to your career and separate them from your personal time. So with that, like, when I enter my living room or my bedroom, I'm not thinking that I can just sit down and work. All of a sudden, whenever I'm taking that time on my calendar, I'm reserving that time for myself so that I can step away. So I think just like, being mindful of where you are, where your time is being spent, and trying your best to formulate boundaries between the two of them is all we can do, especially if you're remote. You want to talk 24/7? Being Web Three is being remote feels like it's 24/7. So it's like, only up to us to be able to try and, you know, carve out that time and an environment to where it fully benefits our day to day.
Mikey Piro 00:35:15
The breaks are key, I think, long and short breaks. One of the things that I've found with the CPG community is that it takes a complete village to have this community run everything from mods to the social folks to the folks that are really attentive to the technical end of coding our rewards program. We have an amazing design team. There are roles across the spectrum that are not just founders or coders or community managers. And what advice do you give to folks as they're kind of approaching Web Three to find the role that suits them in this space?
Christine Theriot 00:36:04
I think identifying your strengths is super important here. Understanding what you can bring to the table is more important than any a typical role that you could define for yourself or that a company could define for you. I remember when I was at BFF, even originally, like, I was hiring people that I didn't even have a role for. I just identified strengths and skill sets that I knew would be extremely valuable, and I took that internally to try and figure out what made the most sense. And even in a conversation I was having months ago, as I was sort of going into what my role would be, this is when I was contemplating going to a world of women or another particular organization. And when I was speaking to them, it was enlightening in the conversation because at that particular dinner, they were like, well, we know your strengths. We don't care what your title would be. We'll figure that part out later. And that always struck me as very interesting because that sort of also speaks to Web Three as a whole. It's like, all right, well, we're all just figuring the shit out and as long as you're good at what you do and as long as you have what we need for you to get it done, all the rest of it is just trivial bullshit anyway. And I love that. I love the fact that if you have a particular array of skill sets to be able to help bring success to an organization and there's nothing that's clearly defined, I think more than anything in this industry, it's worth a conversation. And I think that also applies especially to the creatives. There's never going to be like an exact moment in time where you have a very particular art style or a very particular skill set and you can go out and find that particular skill set for a particular company. Sometimes you just have it and it's about you taking initiative and going to let people know that those are skill sets you have and then them allowing that opportunity to evaluate where opportunities might be available to you. So I think half the battle is just like letting people know what you're good at and then the other half is them figuring out how to put you somewhere where you can actually make an impact.
Mikey Piro 00:38:39
I love it. I love the entrepreneurial space. I think anybody that's in this cutting edge, as you've sort of alluded to another way of saying it, is like there are no titles, there are just jobs to be done. And the camaraderie that gets developed by digging in on just the jobs to be done, by being scrappy, really forges bonds that you don't necessarily get in a larger corporate sense. And it is a special time. I would also say that both in startups and particularly Web Three because most of them feel like startups or our startups, the idea of having tiny fractions of your time being leveraged in this kind of gig economy like everybody needs help. Everyone has skills to offer, and it's really a matter of taking the time and energy to match them that then accelerates sort of your growth in that department, but also the relationship you have with those communities. I think it's wonderful what you've been able to traverse these past few years. I certainly enjoy working with you both professionally and chilling, personally. And I think that the folks that are out there who are listening to this are going to take away a lot of I think you have said this to me in person more than anybody else I know, and I hang with a lot of basketball players. But it's like shoot your shot and you embody shooting your shot. You know exactly sometimes you don't even know exactly what you want to do, but you go for it. And the success and the benefits that other people around you have benefited from, that is clear. So we're going to roll it and wrap it here. And Christine, I'll give you the final word.
Christine Theriot 00:40:40
I'm just super stoked to have the opportunity to have this conversation with you, Mikey, and I hope that anything that I had to say will help someone be able to make their first steps into their career journey in web three. I know for me, like I mentioned earlier, it definitely wasn't linear, but it rarely is. So when in doubt, as Mikey mentioned, shoot your shot. As Wayne Gresky would say, you miss 100% of the shots that you never take. That's my life philosophy and truly believe that. So just looking forward to hearing those accounts of people shooting their shots. And I'm always available, and my messages are always open if people ever have any questions about shooting theirs.